Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)
Cloud can keep Incineroar boxed out with long sword spacing, nair, bair, and the fast cycling of Climhazzard, and once Limit is available he can pressure both your landing and your recovery at the same time. If Incineroar tries to close space only by dashing in straight ahead, he usually gets clipped first by the sword tip or by Up B reversals. At the same time, Cloud has clear weaknesses in his rougher grounded approaches and in his non-Limit recovery. As the frame table shows, Jab 1-3, forward tilt, up tilt, down tilt, dash attack, every smash attack, dair, Neutral B, Side B, and Down B (2) can all be taken back by Incineroar with OOS Nair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), OOS Bair (10f), OOS Fair (11f), and Up B (11f). Letting those go is the biggest mistake in the matchup. The win condition is to stop trying to brawl with the sword tip, make Cloud halt first with walk shield and pre-emptive nair, then use Alolan Whip and grab to force him to the ledge. Revenge is still worth showing, but it is stronger when saved for clear timings instead of being overused into Limit moves or grabs. Kills are more repeatable through ledge pressure than through center-stage gambling. By mixing bair, Alolan Whip, and up smash at the ledge, then chasing Cloud’s weak downward recovery path when he has no Limit, Incineroar gets far more stable closes than from desperate midstage callouts.
Full Move Frame Quick Reference
| Opponent Move | Startup | On Shield | Incineroar OOS Candidate Moves | Barely Missed Moves |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jab 1 | 4 | -21 |
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| Jab 2 | 5 | -24 |
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| Jab 3 | 6 | -27 |
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| Forward Tilt | 9 | -16 |
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| Up Tilt | 6 | -18 |
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| Down Tilt | 7 | -26 |
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| Dash Attack | 9 | -26 |
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| Forward Smash | 19/24/28 | -29/-30 |
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| Up Smash | 12 | -24 |
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| Down Smash | 8/21 | -38/-20 |
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| Neutral Air | 5 | -5 |
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| Forward Air | 18 | -6/-6/-7 |
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| Back Air | 11 | -3 |
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| Up Air | 8 | -5/-5 |
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| Down Air | 11 | -11/-12 |
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| Neutral B | 18(18) | -25(-33) |
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| Side B | 10 | -25 |
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| Up B | 7/10 | ** | ||
| Down B (1) | — | — | ||
| Down B (2) | 12 (ground) // 14 (air) | -70/-71 |
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| Grab | 9 | — | ||
| Dash Grab | 12 | — | ||
| Pivot Grab | 13 | — |
Win Condition Checklist
- Do not dash directly into the sword tip. Use walk shield and pre-emptive nair to make Cloud stop first, then convert into Alolan Whip, grab, and ledge carry.
- After blocking Jab 1-3, forward tilt, up tilt, down tilt, dash attack, every smash attack, dair, Neutral B, Side B, or Down B (2), always take the turn with OOS Nair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), OOS Bair (10f), OOS Fair (11f), or Up B (11f).
- When Cloud has no Limit, commit harder at the ledge and place bair or fair into the recovery route so he does not get a free return.
- Do not make Alolan Whip your only kill plan. Mix ledge bair, up smash, and recovery edgeguards so Cloud cannot settle into one defensive answer.
Actions to Avoid
- Backing off forever at sword range and handing Cloud both free Limit charge and the pace of nair and bair pressure.
- Fishing for Revenge in obvious spots and getting thrown or clipped by the exact timing you hoped to steal.
- Letting Cloud recycle punishable forward tilt, up tilt, down tilt, dash attack, dair, Neutral B, or Side B without taking the guaranteed turn back.
- Giving up on offstage pressure because you fear Limit too much and allowing non-Limit recovery to slip back to center for free.