Simon vs Lucas

Lucas Matchup (Simon)

Simon vs Lucas

Simon vs Lucas is most stable when you stop playing directly into Lucas's Forward Air and Back Air, punish Jab 1 and Jab 2, and take the landing or ledge route first.

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Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)

Simon wants to stop Lucas’s Jab 1, Jab 2, and Jab 3 with Up B (6f), Grab (10f), OOS Nair (11f), and OOS Dair (16f), then force Lucas back outside Forward Air and Back Air to keep stage control.
In Simon vs Lucas, the stable plan is to avoid playing directly into Lucas’s Forward Air and Back Air and take the landing or ledge route before Lucas can reset.
The table shows that Lucas’s Jab 1, Jab 2, and Jab 3 can be answered by Simon’s Up B (6f), Grab (10f), OOS Nair (11f), and OOS Dair (16f), so those overcommitments should be cashed out immediately.
For Simon, Lucas’s Forward Air and Back Air are still hard to hit immediately out of shield, so reading the landing spot or ledge route matters more than forcing an early swing.

Full Move Frame Quick Reference

Opponent MoveStartupOn ShieldSimon OOS Candidate MovesBarely Missed Moves
Jab 12-13
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (+3)
  • Up Smash (+3)
Jab 23-13
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (+3)
  • Up Smash (+3)
Jab 36-19
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Forward Tilt7-10/-8
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (+2)
  • OOS Nair (+3)
Up Tilt4/7-18
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Down Tilt3-6
  • Up B (6f)
Dash Attack13-15/-12
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
Forward Smash14-21
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Up Smash28/30-54
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Down Smash20/29/39-12
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
Neutral Air7…/26-10/-9
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (+1)
  • OOS Nair (+2)
Forward Air9-3/-2
  • None
Back Air15-5/-4/-6
  • None
  • Up B (+2)
Up Air7-3
  • None
  • Up B (+3)
Down Air10/18/26/34-14/-13
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (+3)
  • Up Smash (+3)
Z Air9-2
  • None
Neutral B40-92-14 to -5
  • None
  • Up B (+1)
Side B21-24
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Up B (1)20
Up B (2)1/4/6/8/10/12/14/17/20/23/26/29-21
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Down B19 (7 is start of absorb)+0
  • None
Grab12
Dash Grab14
Pivot Grab15

Win Condition Checklist

  • Simon should not play directly into Lucas’s Forward Air and Back Air; wait for Lucas’s Jab 1, Jab 2, and Jab 3 and answer with Up B (6f), Grab (10f), OOS Nair (11f), and OOS Dair (16f).
  • After Simon blocks Lucas’s Jab 1, Jab 2, and Jab 3, pick the reachable option from Up B (6f), Grab (10f), OOS Nair (11f), and OOS Dair (16f) immediately.
  • Simon should not mash after Lucas’s Forward Air and Back Air; take the landing route, escape route, or ledge route first.
  • Simon should finish stocks by breaking Lucas’s landing and recovery routes so Forward Air and Back Air does not get more neutral reps.

Actions to Avoid

  • Letting Lucas start the exchange on Forward Air and Back Air terms and giving Simon’s stage control away for free.
  • Having Simon block Lucas’s Jab 1, Jab 2, and Jab 3 but never answer with Up B (6f), Grab (10f), OOS Nair (11f), and OOS Dair (16f).
  • Sending Simon too deep after Lucas’s Forward Air and Back Air and letting the reset punish the chase back.
  • Panicking at the ledge as Simon and simplifying Lucas’s Forward Air and Back Air-driven advantage sequence.

Reference Links

Related Pages