Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)
The matchup shifts fast depending on whether Cloud holds center just outside Lucas’s Fair, Zair, and Down Tilt range, or whether Lucas gets to turn the game into PK Freeze and PK Thunder edgeguard pressure.
Lucas’s safe pokes and offstage threat are real, but his close-range shield pressure is much less oppressive than his spacing game, so Cloud is better off leaning on back air, forward air, down tilt, and Limit charge to create position first.
As the table shows, jab strings, forward tilt, up tilt, nair, down air, dash attack, the smash attacks, Side B, and Up B (2) are the spots Cloud can stop cleanly with Up B (7f) or OOS Nair (8f), while Down Tilt, Fair, Back Air, Up Air, Zair, and Down B are usually not worth forcing.
The stable win condition is to avoid handing Blade Beam over to PSI Magnet too cheaply, take the guaranteed punishes, and finish stocks at ledge with Back Air, Up Smash, and Limit specials covering both tether recovery and PK Thunder launches.
Full Move Frame Quick Reference
| Opponent Move | Startup | On Shield | Cloud OOS Candidate Moves | Barely Missed Moves |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jab 1 | 2 | -13 |
|
|
| Jab 2 | 3 | -13 |
|
|
| Jab 3 | 6 | -19 |
|
|
| Forward Tilt | 7 | -10/-8 |
|
|
| Up Tilt | 4/7 | -18 |
|
|
| Down Tilt | 3 | -6 |
|
|
| Dash Attack | 13 | -15/-12 |
|
|
| Forward Smash | 14 | -21 |
| |
| Up Smash | 28/30 | -54 |
| |
| Down Smash | 20/29/39 | -12 |
|
|
| Neutral Air | 7…/26 | -10/-9 |
|
|
| Forward Air | 9 | -3/-2 |
| |
| Back Air | 15 | -5/-4/-6 |
|
|
| Up Air | 7 | -3 |
| |
| Down Air | 10/18/26/34 | -14/-13 |
|
|
| Z Air | 9 | -2 |
| |
| Neutral B | 40-92 | -14 to -5 |
|
|
| Side B | 21 | -24 |
| |
| Up B (1) | 20 | — | ||
| Up B (2) | 1/4/6/8/10/12/14/17/20/23/26/29 | -21 |
| |
| Down B | 19 (7 is start of absorb) | +0 |
| |
| Grab | 12 | — | ||
| Dash Grab | 14 | — | ||
| Pivot Grab | 15 | — |
Win Condition Checklist
- Cloud should hold center with back air, forward air, down tilt, and Limit charge so Lucas has to overextend past Fair, Zair, and Down Tilt spacing.
- After blocking Lucas’s jab strings, forward tilt, up tilt, nair, down air, dash attack, smash attacks, Side B, or Up B (2), Cloud should answer with Up B (7f) or OOS Nair (8f) and end the sequence there.
- When Lucas’s Down Tilt, Fair, Back Air, Up Air, or Zair touches shield, Cloud should not mash immediately and should instead track the fade-back or landing route for the next sword swing.
- Cloud should not spend Blade Beam or Limit Blade Beam carelessly into PSI Magnet, and at ledge should layer Back Air, Up Smash, and Limit threat over tether recovery plus PK Thunder return angles.
Actions to Avoid
- Relying too heavily on Blade Beam in midrange and letting Lucas convert PSI Magnet into healing and better positioning.
- Swinging after every blocked Down Tilt, Fair, Back Air, Up Air, or Zair and getting whiff-punished into a trip to the ledge.
- Chasing Lucas too deep offstage and giving Fair, PK Freeze, or PK Thunder the chance to turn Cloud’s weaker recovery against him.
- Recovering without Limit at one fixed height or timing and making Lucas’s tether coverage plus PK Thunder setup too easy.