Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)
The matchup is decided by whether Marth gets to keep his ideal tipper spacing, or whether Cloud uses Limit and back air to lock center stage down first.
Marth’s tipper hits kill very hard, but his close-range hits push less and do less damage, and he has no projectile, so simply showing Limit Charge or Blade Beam makes him walk forward more often than he wants to.
As the table shows, Jab 1, Jab 2, forward tilt, up tilt, dash attack, smash attacks, down air, Neutral B, and Side B all give Cloud real punishes with Up B (7f) or OOS Nair (8f), while fair, bair, nair, and uair are generally safe, so forcing a button after every block only invites Dolphin Slash or a retreating whiff punish.
The win condition is to shove Marth inside tipper range with back air, down tilt, and up tilt in center, then trap the shorter horizontal recovery at the ledge with Back Air, down tilt, and Limit Blade Beam.
Full Move Frame Quick Reference
| Opponent Move | Startup | On Shield | Cloud OOS Candidate Moves | Barely Missed Moves |
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| Jab 1 | 5 | -16/-14 |
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| Jab 2 | 4 | -19/-18 |
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| Forward Tilt | 8 | -16/-14 |
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| Up Tilt | 6 | -21/-18 |
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| Down Tilt | 7 | -9/-6 |
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| Dash Attack | 13 | -22/-20 |
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| Forward Smash | 10 | -32/-29 |
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| Up Smash | 13 | -41/-36 |
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| Down Smash | 6/21 | -43/-41/-26/-23 |
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| Neutral Air | 6/15 | -5/-4/-4/-3 |
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| Forward Air | 6 | -6/-5 |
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| Back Air | 7 | -6/-5 |
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| Up Air | 5 | -4/-3 |
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| Down Air | 9/11 | -9/-9/-9 |
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| Neutral B | 19—79 | -23 to Shieldbreak |
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| Side B | 9 | -26/-16 |
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| Up B | 5 | — | ||
| Down B | 6 (Start of Counter) | — | ||
| Grab | 6 | — | ||
| Dash Grab | 9 | — | ||
| Pivot Grab | 10 | — |
Win Condition Checklist
- Cloud should show Limit Charge or Blade Beam in center stage, make Marth step in first, and start the spacing exchange with tipper-range back air and down tilt.
- After blocking Jab 1, Jab 2, forward tilt, up tilt, dash attack, smash attacks, down air, Neutral B, or Side B, Cloud should take the guaranteed punish with Up B (7f) or OOS Nair (8f).
- After blocking Marth’s fair, bair, nair, or uair, Cloud should not force an immediate shield punish and should instead cover the drift-back or landing spot with the next back air or up tilt.
- At the ledge, Cloud should layer Back Air, Up Smash, and Limit Blade Beam onto jump and normal getup while using down tilt or back air to keep Marth’s shorter horizontal recovery pinned down.
Actions to Avoid
- Pressing a low fair or landing bair into Marth’s shield and giving Dolphin Slash or Counter a clean reversal.
- Trying to punish every blocked fair, bair, or nair immediately and letting Marth reset tipper spacing off a retreat.
- Chasing too far offstage for a single edgeguard hit and letting bair, Counter, or Up B flip the position onto Cloud’s weaker recovery.
- Backing up without Limit for too long and allowing Marth to claim center stage, forward tilt pressure, and Shield Breaker threat at the corner.