Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)
Greninja wants to use Water Shuriken and run speed to interrupt the space Lucas needs for Forward Tilt, Forward Air, and PK Freeze, force the jump or retreat first, and convert that into landing traps.
In Greninja vs Lucas, it is more stable to create whiffs with dash stops and pullback movement, then take the turn with Dash Attack, Down Tilt, and Neutral Air, rather than challenging Lucas’s spaced Forward Tilt, Forward Air, and Back Air directly.
The table shows that Lucas’s Jab 1, Jab 2, Up Tilt, Dash Attack, Down Smash, Down Air, and Side B are reachable for Greninja’s OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f), so close-range scrambles can be cashed out.
Lucas can still punish predictable Water Shuriken with PSI Magnet and flip edgeguards with PK Thunder and Back Air, so Greninja should vary the projectile rhythm and value ledge pressure and landing coverage over deep offstage chases.
Full Move Frame Quick Reference
| Opponent Move | Startup | On Shield | Greninja OOS Candidate Moves | Barely Missed Moves |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jab 1 | 2 | -13 |
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| Jab 2 | 3 | -13 |
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| Jab 3 | 6 | -19 |
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| Forward Tilt | 7 | -10/-8 |
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| Up Tilt | 4/7 | -18 |
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| Down Tilt | 3 | -6 |
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| Dash Attack | 13 | -15/-12 |
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| Forward Smash | 14 | -21 |
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| Up Smash | 28/30 | -54 |
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| Down Smash | 20/29/39 | -12 |
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| Neutral Air | 7…/26 | -10/-9 |
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| Forward Air | 9 | -3/-2 |
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| Back Air | 15 | -5/-4/-6 |
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| Up Air | 7 | -3 |
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| Down Air | 10/18/26/34 | -14/-13 |
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| Z Air | 9 | -2 |
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| Neutral B | 40-92 | -14 to -5 |
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| Side B | 21 | -24 |
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| Up B (1) | 20 | — | ||
| Up B (2) | 1/4/6/8/10/12/14/17/20/23/26/29 | -21 |
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| Down B | 19 (7 is start of absorb) | +0 |
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| Grab | 12 | — | ||
| Dash Grab | 14 | — | ||
| Pivot Grab | 15 | — |
Win Condition Checklist
- Greninja should not spam Water Shuriken; use it as a check, then re-enter with Dash Attack, Down Tilt, and Neutral Air after Lucas commits to PSI Magnet, jump, or movement.
- After Greninja blocks Lucas’s Jab 1, Jab 2, Up Tilt, Dash Attack, Down Air, or Side B, pick the reachable punish from OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f) immediately.
- Once Lucas is sent offstage, Greninja should avoid overchasing and instead use Hydro Pump and grounded movement to disturb both PK Thunder and tether recovery routes while preserving the ledge trap.
- Greninja should take stocks by pre-covering Lucas’s landing and escape routes with Up Smash, Back Air, and ledge pressure rather than swinging late into Lucas’s drift.
Actions to Avoid
- Repeating Water Shuriken at the same rhythm and letting Lucas farm time and healing windows with PSI Magnet.
- Running directly into the tip of Lucas’s Forward Tilt, Forward Air, and Back Air and accepting a losing range battle.
- Chasing too deep offstage every time Lucas is knocked away and giving PK Thunder or Back Air a free reversal.
- Blocking Lucas’s Jab 1, Jab 2, Up Tilt, Dash Attack, Down Air, or Side B but failing to take the punish window back.