Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)
This matchup is about whether Greninja keeps Steve from ever settling into mining and block placement. Greninja is the faster fighter by a wide margin, but he is not built to sit in shield and win through raw out-of-shield checks, so the matchup gets worse the more he allows Steve to build the pace and the terrain.
Greninja should use speed, Water Shuriken, and long-entry movement to interrupt mining starts and make Steve defend before the setup is ready. Once Greninja gets the touch, he should not cash out and disengage immediately. Uair, Bair, and Dash Attack conversions matter because each extra landing trap or ledge push removes another chance for Steve to refresh materials.
The frame table shows Dash Attack, Forward Smash, Up Smash, Down Smash, and Dair are the main true punish spots, while jab and Nair can still be checked with OOS Bair (8f). By contrast, Up Tilt, Down Tilt, Fair, Bair, Uair, and Steve’s specials are poor direct shield-punish situations, so trying to solve minecart, block pressure, and close tools with shield alone strips Greninja of his biggest strength.
The win condition is to build the lead while Steve’s resources are still thin, then keep him airborne or cornered long enough that iron and diamond never fully take over the game. Hydro Pump and Bair are enough to threaten the recovery, but Greninja usually gets a more repeatable result by holding center and denying the next mining window instead of diving blindly onto blocks or minecart lines.
Full Move Frame Quick Reference
| Opponent Move | Startup | On Shield | Greninja OOS Candidate Moves | Barely Missed Moves |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jab | 4 (Gold: 3) | -10 / (Gold: -9) |
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| Up Tilt | 6 (Gold: 4) | Punch -4 | Wood -3 | Stone -3 |Iron -2 | Gold -1 | Diamond -1 |
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| Down Tilt | 12… | +5 |
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| Dash Attack | 8 (Gold: 8) | Punch -15 | Wood -13 | Stone -12 | Iron -12 | Gold -10 | Diamond -10 |
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| Forward Smash | 13 (Gold: 10) | Punch -22 | Wood -20 | Stone -19 | Iron -18 | Gold -15 | Diamond -17 |
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| Up Smash | 8… | -11 |
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| Down Smash | 8… | -34/-16 |
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| Neutral Air | 4 (Gold: 3) | -10 (Gold: -9) |
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| Forward Air | 8 | Punch -8/-8 | Wood -8/-7 | Stone -7/-7 | Iron -7/-7 | Gold -8/-7 | Diamond -7/-6 |
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| Back Air | 12 | Punch -8/-8 | Wood -7/-7 | Stone -7/-7 | Iron -7/-6 | Gold -7/-7 | Diamond -6/-6 |
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| Up Air | 4 (Gold: 4) | Punch -4 | Wood -3 | Stone -3 | Iron -2 | Gold -1 | Diamond -1 |
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| Down Air | 20 | -14 |
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| Neutral B | ** | — | ||
| Side B | 18 | ** | ||
| Up B | 28 (Ground) / 23 (Air) | ** | ||
| Down B | ** | ** | ||
| Grab | 13 | — | ||
| Dash Grab | 16 | — | ||
| Pivot Grab | 17 | — |
Win Condition Checklist
- Use speed, Water Shuriken, and long-entry movement to interrupt mining starts and prevent safe block setup cycles.
- After getting the first touch, extend with Uair, Bair, and Dash Attack so Steve loses his next landing and his next mining chance together.
- After blocking Dash Attack, Forward Smash, Up Smash, Down Smash, or Dair, take the punish with OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), or Up Smash (12f).
- Do not force shield punishes on Up Tilt, Down Tilt, Fair, Bair, Uair, or Steve’s specials. Take the landing spot, the minecart endpoint, or the mining position instead.
- Edgeguard with Hydro Pump and Bair when the lane is clear, but keep center stage first so Steve cannot immediately reset into another resource cycle.
Actions to Avoid
- Waiting at full screen and letting Steve mine, wall up, and upgrade for free.
- Trying to solve minecart and block pressure by shielding every time and giving up Greninja’s superior mobility.
- Forcing immediate shield punishes on Up Tilt, Down Tilt, Fair, Bair, or Uair and handing Steve a free relanding or setup reset.
- Jumping recklessly onto blocks or minecart routes just because the stock is close and getting opened up by Steve’s heavy conversions.
- Backing off too quickly after landing one hit and giving Steve the next mining turn without making him land first.