Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)
Greninja is strongest when Water Shuriken pauses you just long enough for Dash Attack, Neutral Air, or Up Air to take over the exchange. If Isabelle is late resetting her wall, the run lane disappears all at once.
The stable plan is to cut the grounded burst lane with Lloyd, show Forward Air and Back Air in the jump lane, then wait for the Neutral Air landing or the low Hydro Pump recovery with Fishing Rod. Greninja is light and not especially durable on defense, so denying clean entries over and over is worth more than forcing one big callout.
The table shows reliable shield punishes on Rapid Jab Finisher, Down B (2), Down Smash, Side B, and Jab 3, with OOS Nair, OOS Uair, Up Smash, and Grab available whenever Greninja spends a large reversal.
Neutral Air, Forward Air, and Back Air are still not the places to mash. It is safer to take the landing spot, escape route, or ledge route first and punish the next movement.
Full Move Frame Quick Reference
| Opponent Move | Startup | On Shield | Isabelle OOS Candidate Moves | Barely Missed Moves |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jab 1 | 3 | -15 |
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| Jab 2 | 3 | -15 |
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| Jab 3 | 5 | -26 |
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| Rapid Jab | 5/8/11/14… | — | ||
| Rapid Jab Finisher | 4 | -39 |
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| Forward Tilt | 10 | -14/-14 |
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| Up Tilt | 9 | -18 |
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| Down Tilt | 5 | -12 |
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| Dash Attack | 7 | -13 |
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| Forward Smash | 13 | -26 |
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| Up Smash | 12/18 | -23 |
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| Down Smash | 11 | -29 |
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| Neutral Air | 12 | -2/-4 |
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| Forward Air | 16 | -6 |
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| Back Air | 5/7/11 | -8/-7 |
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| Up Air | 7/10/13/16/19/22 | -12/-12 |
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| Down Air | 17 | -16 |
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| Neutral B | 20—60 | -18 to -13 |
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| Side B | 24(+5) | -29/-28 |
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| Up B | 19 | — | ||
| Down B (1) | 8 (Start of Counter) | — | ||
| Down B (2) | 19 | -33/-32 |
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| Grab | 10 | — | ||
| Dash Grab | 13 | — | ||
| Pivot Grab | 14 | — |
Win Condition Checklist
- Do not freeze on Water Shuriken; use Lloyd to split the grounded burst lane from the jump lane.
- After blocking Rapid Jab Finisher, Down B (2), Down Smash, Side B, and Jab 3, answer immediately with OOS Nair, OOS Uair, Up Smash, or Grab.
- Do not mash after Neutral Air, Forward Air, or Back Air; take the landing spot, escape route, or ledge route first.
- Finish stocks by catching the light landing and the low Hydro Pump recovery at the ledge instead of overplaying center-stage footspeed.
Actions to Avoid
- Freezing on Water Shuriken and handing Dash Attack or running Neutral Air the opening for free.
- Mashing after every blocked Neutral Air, Forward Air, and Back Air and giving Greninja the reset into another landing trap.
- Placing Lloyd and then backing away from it, leaving the fast jump-through route completely open.
- Chasing Hydro Pump too deep and letting Greninja reverse position with drift or Back Air.