Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)
This matchup gets worse for Joker the more directly he agrees to play Mythra’s ground-speed and sword-range game. Mythra’s raw kill power is still more setup-dependent than her neutral, but the pace of her entries, whiff punishes, and landing traps is so high that normal Joker falls behind quickly if he keeps trying to force damage from equal footing.
Joker does better by declining the straight chase and instead using gun, pullback movement, and his low profile to whiff punish the end of Mythra’s fair, bair, and dash attack, then converting those touches into landing pressure. Rebel’s Guard is valuable here, but it loses hard to grab and hard baits, so it should be inserted into visible strings rather than used as a default answer.
The frame table shows Jab 1-3, Forward Tilt, Up Tilt, Down Tilt, Dash Attack, every smash attack, Nair, Neutral B, and Side B are all punishable mainly through OOS Uair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Fair/Bair (10f), or Up Smash (10f). By contrast, Fair, Bair, Uair, Dair, and Up B are not stable immediate shield-punish spots, so forcing the instant answer there only lets Mythra keep cycling landings and pullbacks.
The win condition is not building a huge lead in normal form, but reaching Arsene without getting snowballed and then turning Arsene time into ledge pressure and stocks. Mythra’s recovery and landings are much easier to stress under repeated coverage, so Joker gets more repeatable kills by layering bair, up smash, Eiha pressure, and gun at ledge than by fishing for one giant center-stage read.
Full Move Frame Quick Reference
| Opponent Move | Startup | On Shield | Joker OOS Candidate Moves | Barely Missed Moves |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jab 1 | 2 | -15 |
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| Jab 2 | 4 | -23 |
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| Jab 3 | 4 | -20 |
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| Rapid Jab | 8/12/16… | — | ||
| Rapid Jab Finisher | 6 | -27 |
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| Forward Tilt | 8 | -11 |
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| Up Tilt | 7 | -14 |
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| Down Tilt | 5 | -11/-10 |
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| Dash Attack | 9 | -22 |
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| Forward Smash | 14 | -26 |
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| Up Smash | 9/12/17/22/26 | -40/-21 |
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| Down Smash | 8/14 | -28/-30/-22/-24 |
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| Neutral Air | 8 | -10 |
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| Forward Air | 8 | -7 |
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| Back Air | 10 | -7 |
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| Up Air | 9 | -5 |
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| Down Air | 13 | -7 |
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| Neutral B | 9/20/30/40—69/80/90/99/109 | -21 — -8 |
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| Side B | 18/25/32/39/46/54 | -47 |
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| Up B | 10/40 | ** | ||
| Down B | — | — | ||
| Grab | 6 | — | ||
| Dash Grab | 11 | — | ||
| Pivot Grab | 12 | — |
Win Condition Checklist
- Refuse the pure speed race, and use gun, pullback movement, and low-profile movement to whiff punish the end of Mythra’s fair, bair, and dash attack before turning that touch into landing pressure.
- After blocking Jab 1-3, Forward Tilt, Up Tilt, Down Tilt, Dash Attack, any smash attack, Nair, Neutral B, or Side B, take the listed punish with OOS Uair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Fair/Bair (10f), or Up Smash (10f).
- After blocking Fair, Bair, Uair, Dair, or Up B, do not force the immediate punish. Cover the relanding and pullback instead with gun, bair, or grounded whiff punish timing.
- Use Rebel’s Guard only against visible strings and landing pressure, and do not overcommit it into a grab-heavy or hard-bait rhythm before Arsene arrives.
- Once Arsene is active, prioritize ledge pressure over center-stage kill swings, and split coverage with bair, up smash, Eiha pressure, and gun to trap both recovery and ledge escape.
Actions to Avoid
- Matching Mythra’s speed head-on and letting her whiff-punish and landing-trap cycle dictate the pace of the match.
- Trying to shield punish every blocked Fair, Bair, Uair, Dair, and Up B immediately and giving Mythra a free reset into the next landing or pullback.
- Leaning on Rebel’s Guard too often and getting broken open by grab or deliberate hesitation during normal Joker’s weakest phase.
- Spending Arsene time on center-stage haymakers only and throwing away ledge sequences that would have produced the kill more reliably.