Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)
This matchup becomes dangerous for Charizard the moment Greninja gets repeated run-in starters and landing traps going, because Charizard’s body gives Greninja a lot to combo. But Greninja is still fragile on defense, so if Charizard can halt those entries on the ground and cash in hard on each defensive miss, the pace swings fast.
Charizard does better by staying grounded more often, using Flamethrower, Forward Tilt, and pullback movement to erase Dash Attack and Down Tilt lanes, then waiting for the landing instead of chasing high. Greninja’s Nair pressure and Uair extensions are strong, but the more Charizard overcommits upward first, the more often Greninja gets to slip underneath and restart the juggle.
The frame table shows Jab 1-3, Forward Tilt, Up Tilt, Down Tilt, Dash Attack, every smash attack, Up Air, Down Air, Neutral B, Side B, and Down B (2) are all punishable, mainly by Up Smash (6f) or Up B (9f). Fair and Bair can also be checked by Up Smash when close, but Nair is not stable, and Water Shuriken or Hydro Pump are better answered by positioning than by immediate retaliation.
Kills are more repeatable through landing traps into Up Smash, ledge Bair, and Up Throw than through center-stage scramble guesses. Offstage overcommitment is risky because Hydro Pump angles can flip positioning, so keeping the ledge trap intact is usually the better trade.
Full Move Frame Quick Reference
| Opponent Move | Startup | On Shield | Charizard OOS Candidate Moves | Barely Missed Moves |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jab 1 | 3 | -15 |
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| Jab 2 | 3 | -15 |
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| Jab 3 | 5 | -26 |
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| Rapid Jab | 5/8/11/14… | — | ||
| Rapid Jab Finisher | 4 | -39 |
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| Forward Tilt | 10 | -14/-14 |
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| Up Tilt | 9 | -18 |
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| Down Tilt | 5 | -12 |
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| Dash Attack | 7 | -13 |
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| Forward Smash | 13 | -26 |
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| Up Smash | 12/18 | -23 |
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| Down Smash | 11 | -29 |
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| Neutral Air | 12 | -2/-4 |
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| Forward Air | 16 | -6 |
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| Back Air | 5/7/11 | -8/-7 |
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| Up Air | 7/10/13/16/19/22 | -12/-12 |
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| Down Air | 17 | -16 |
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| Neutral B | 20—60 | -18 to -13 |
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| Side B | 24(+5) | -29/-28 |
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| Up B | 19 | — | ||
| Down B (1) | 8 (Start of Counter) | — | ||
| Down B (2) | 19 | -33/-32 |
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| Grab | 10 | — | ||
| Dash Grab | 13 | — | ||
| Pivot Grab | 14 | — |
Win Condition Checklist
- Use Flamethrower, Forward Tilt, and pullback movement to stop Dash Attack and Down Tilt from starting Greninja’s offense, and force him back into landing situations.
- After blocking Jab 1-3, Forward Tilt, Up Tilt, Down Tilt, Dash Attack, any smash attack, Up Air, Down Air, Neutral B, Side B, or Down B (2), take the listed punish with Up Smash (6f) and Up B (9f) as the main answers.
- Take close Fair and Bair with Up Smash when they land too near, but do not force shield punishes on Nair or ranged specials. Cover the landing and drift instead.
- Build kills from landing traps, ledge Bair, and Up Throw rather than spending long stretches in center-stage speed scrambles.
- Prioritize holding ledge over deep edgeguards so Hydro Pump angle mix does not flip the situation back on Charizard.
Actions to Avoid
- Jumping high to chase Greninja over and over and feeding directly into Nair and Uair landing-trap loops.
- Letting Dash Attack, Down Tilt, and Up Air go unpunished and giving a fast character free offense resets.
- Swinging immediately after every Nair or projectile instead of reclaiming space and covering the next landing.
- Overcommitting offstage and losing ledge control to Hydro Pump angle changes.