Robin vs Simon

Simon Matchup (Robin)

Robin vs Simon

Robin vs Simon is about not bleeding resources in the straight projectile war, then turning the real shield punishes and second landing traps into ledge pressure.

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Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)

Simon is strongest when Cross, Axe, Holy Water, forward tilt, fair, and bair lock down the horizontal lane and escort Robin to the ledge. Robin is slow and Elwind is easy to harass, so the matchup gets much worse whenever Robin keeps jumping over projectiles on reaction and gives up center stage for free.
Robin does not need to rush the direct midrange exchange, though. If Thunder charge and Arcfire make Simon commit to Cross or a jump first, Robin can attack the close-range weakness and heavy landing that follow. Simon is not comfortable when someone is directly on top of him, so the stable pattern is to walk, shield, and threaten Thunder or Arcfire around the Cross toss, then move inside on the landing from fair or bair.
The frame table is also clear here. Jab 1, jab 2, Rapid Jab Finisher, up tilt, down tilt (1)(2), dash attack, every smash attack, neutral air, down air, and side special all give Robin real punish windows through Up B (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Nair (10f), and Up Smash (12f). By contrast, forward tilt, fair, bair, uair, and neutral special are mostly safe in place, and forcing a button there just lets Simon rebuild the whip-and-projectile wall. After the safe moves, it matters more to cover the retreat and next landing with Thunder or Arcfire than to swing immediately.
For stocks, it is more repeatable to stay onstage and trap Simon’s short Up B recovery and ledge options than to overcommit to a deep edgeguard. At the ledge, mix Arcfire, charged Thunder, Levin Sword fair and bair, and Up Smash so that both low recovery and jump from ledge are covered.

Full Move Frame Quick Reference

Opponent MoveStartupOn ShieldRobin OOS Candidate MovesBarely Missed Moves
Jab 15-21
  • Up B (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (10f)
  • OOS Bair (12f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Uair (13f)
  • OOS Fair (15f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
Jab 23-23
  • Up B (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (10f)
  • OOS Bair (12f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Uair (13f)
  • OOS Fair (15f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
Rapid Jab9/12/15…
Rapid Jab Finisher3-37
  • Up B (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (10f)
  • OOS Bair (12f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Uair (13f)
  • OOS Fair (15f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
Forward Tilt12-8/-7
  • None
  • Up B (+1)
  • Grab (+3)
  • OOS Nair (+3)
Up Tilt10-17
  • Up B (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (10f)
  • OOS Bair (12f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Uair (13f)
  • OOS Fair (15f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
Down Tilt (1)7-31
  • Up B (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (10f)
  • OOS Bair (12f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Uair (13f)
  • OOS Fair (15f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
Down Tilt (2)8-42/-28
  • Up B (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (10f)
  • OOS Bair (12f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Uair (13f)
  • OOS Fair (15f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
Dash Attack10/13/16/19/22/24-26
  • Up B (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (10f)
  • OOS Bair (12f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Uair (13f)
  • OOS Fair (15f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
Forward Smash24-28/-26
  • Up B (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (10f)
  • OOS Bair (12f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Uair (13f)
  • OOS Fair (15f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
Up Smash16-27/-26
  • Up B (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (10f)
  • OOS Bair (12f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Uair (13f)
  • OOS Fair (15f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
Down Smash14/20-33/-30/-27/-24
  • Up B (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (10f)
  • OOS Bair (12f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Uair (13f)
  • OOS Fair (15f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
Neutral Air8…-12/-11
  • Up B (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (10f)
  • OOS Bair (+1)
  • Up Smash (+1)
  • OOS Uair (+2)
Forward Air14-6/-5/-8
  • None
  • Up B (+3)
Back Air14-6/-5/-8
  • None
  • Up B (+3)
Up Air14-6/-5/-8
  • None
  • Up B (+3)
Down Air13-21/-23
  • Up B (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (10f)
  • OOS Bair (12f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Uair (13f)
  • OOS Fair (15f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
Neutral B30-6
  • None
  • Up B (+2)
Side B19-15
  • Up B (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (10f)
  • OOS Bair (12f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Uair (13f)
  • OOS Fair (15f)
  • OOS Dair (+1)
Up B6/9/…**
Down B18**
Grab10
Dash Grab13
Pivot Grab14

Win Condition Checklist

  • Do not spend Arcfire and Levin Sword carelessly in the straight projectile war. Use Thunder charge and walking to make Simon show Cross or jump first.
  • After blocking jab 1, jab 2, Rapid Jab Finisher, up tilt, down tilt (1)(2), dash attack, any smash attack, neutral air, down air, or side special, punish immediately with Up B (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Nair (10f), or Up Smash (12f) so Simon’s slow grounded turn actually ends.
  • Do not insist on in-place punishes against forward tilt, fair, bair, uair, or neutral special. Cover the fallback and landing instead with Thunder, Arcfire, and uair.
  • Once you get inside, keep pressing Simon’s poor close-range defense with grab, Levin Sword fair and bair, and uair so the advantage keeps carrying toward the ledge.
  • At KO percent, stay disciplined offstage and manage the low Up B recovery plus jump from ledge with Arcfire, charged Thunder, Levin Sword fair and bair, and Up Smash.

Actions to Avoid

  • Obsessing over jumping over every Cross and handing center stage to Simon’s ledgetrap game.
  • Burning too much Arcfire and Levin Sword in a straight-line projectile trade and entering the long game with weaker kill power and pushback.
  • Treating forward tilt, fair, bair, uair, and neutral special as automatic shield punishes and whiffing Up B or Up Smash into the whip tip.
  • Chasing too deep offstage and letting Up B, fair, bair, or Axe reverse the position while Robin’s Elwind count and recovery distance get stretched thin.

Reference Links

Related Pages