Simon vs Ganondorf

Ganondorf Matchup (Simon)

Simon vs Ganondorf

Simon vs Ganondorf is about denying close-range brawls with horizontal control, cashing out on every unsafe heavy swing, and repeatedly pressing the weak recovery at ledge.

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Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)

This matchup lines up well for Simon because Ganondorf’s slow ground movement and fragile recovery give Simon’s whip range and projectiles a lot of room to work. If Cross, Holy Water, axe, fair, and bair keep steering the approach path, Ganondorf has to take a major risk just to start playing at all, and once he loses stage he has a hard time rebuilding position.
The danger is still obvious: one clean close-range opening can snowball into nair pressure, down tilt, Flame Choke, or a smash attack that also pushes Simon toward his own weak recovery. If the projectile rhythm gets predictable, Ganondorf can jump the lane or dash through the gap, so Simon cannot sit at one height and autopilot. Walking back and mixing tipper whip timings matters as much as throwing projectiles.
The table shows many of Ganondorf’s big commitments are punishable on block. Jab, forward tilt, up tilt, down tilt, dash attack, every smash, forward air, up air, down air, Neutral B, and both Down B hits can all be answered mainly by Simon’s Up B (6f) or Grab (10f). Missing those punishes lets Ganondorf reach the exact volatility he wants, so the guaranteed damage has to be taken consistently.
The win condition is not a reckless offstage chase. Push Ganondorf to ledge, then keep shrinking the return with Holy Water, fair, bair, and Up B while covering ledge getups and the landing from Up B. Simon closes this matchup more reliably by maintaining ledge pressure than by overextending offstage.

Full Move Frame Quick Reference

Opponent MoveStartupOn ShieldSimon OOS Candidate MovesBarely Missed Moves
Jab7-8
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (+2)
  • OOS Nair (+3)
Forward Tilt10-17/-16
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (+1)
  • OOS Fair (+1)
  • OOS Uair (+1)
Up Tilt60-14
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (+2)
  • Up Smash (+2)
  • OOS Bair (+3)
  • OOS Fair (+3)
  • OOS Uair (+3)
Down Tilt10-12
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
Dash Attack10-13/-11
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
Forward Smash29-24
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Up Smash20-25
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Down Smash15/35-39/-13
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (+3)
  • Up Smash (+3)
Neutral Air7/17(-7/-7)(-5/-6)
  • None
  • Up B (+1)
Forward Air14-7/-7
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (+3)
Back Air10-4/-5
  • None
  • Up B (+2)
Up Air8-6/-6/-6/-7/-7/-8
  • Up B (6f)
Down Air16-9/-10
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (+1)
  • OOS Nair (+2)
Neutral B (1)70/80-20/-14
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (+2)
  • Up Smash (+2)
  • OOS Bair (+3)
  • OOS Fair (+3)
  • OOS Uair (+3)
Neutral B (2)70/80-14/-12
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
Side B (1)16
Side B (2)16
Side B (3)
Up B14
Down B (1)16-29
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Down B (2)16-34
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Grab8
Dash Grab11
Pivot Grab12

Win Condition Checklist

  • Do not repeat the same projectile lane. Mix Cross, Holy Water, axe, walking retreat, and tipper fair or bair so Ganondorf’s jump and dash-in routes stay fixed and punishable.
  • After blocking jab, any tilt, dash attack, any smash, forward air, up air, down air, Neutral B, or Down B (1)(2), punish with Up B (6f) or Grab (10f) and deny the heavy close-range turn.
  • Do not freeze in place just because Flame Choke is a threat. Show shield, then keep shifting horizontally so the grab and nair layers do not become free.
  • Once Ganondorf is cornered, stay stage-side and use Holy Water, fair, bair, and Up B to cover ledge options and the landing after Up B instead of chasing too deep.
  • At kill percent, do not force only forward smash reads. Finish through repeated ledge pressure into tipper fair, bair, or Up B.

Actions to Avoid

  • Feeding Ganondorf the same projectile height over and over until he starts calling it out with jump aerials or dash timing.
  • Letting punishable jab pressure, tilts, smash attacks, aerials, Neutral B, or Down B go unpunished and giving Ganondorf repeated access to comeback swings.
  • Overrespecting Flame Choke to the point that shield and passive drift become your whole defense, allowing yourself to be walked to the corner.
  • Chasing too far offstage and running into Up B or aerial hitboxes while exposing Simon’s own weak recovery.

Reference Links

Related Pages