Simon vs Incineroar

Incineroar Matchup (Simon)

Simon vs Incineroar

Simon vs Incineroar is about pressing the horizontal wall on a slow heavyweight without feeding Revenge the same projectile rhythm, then widening the gap at ledge and against the weak recovery.

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Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)

This matchup naturally favors Simon’s whip range and projectile wall because Incineroar is so slow on the ground and so fragile offstage, which means that if center stage is held, Incineroar often has to pay heavily just to begin approaching.
The danger is that predictable zoning can still backfire hard. If Crosses and Holy Water come out on one repeated lane, Revenge can turn a single read into a massive punish, and then Alolan Whip or a heavy aerial can carry Simon all the way to his own weak recovery. The projectiles work better here as route-fixing tools that force jumps and shields, not as autopilot damage loops.
The table shows plenty of clear stops once Incineroar is finally in: Jab 1-3, forward tilt, up tilt, down tilt, dash attack, every smash, neutral air, forward air, back air, down air, Neutral B, and Up B all lose to Simon’s Up B (6f) or Grab (10f). By contrast, Side B is not a spot to solve by just holding shield in place, so footwork and spacing matter more than passive blocking.
The win condition is not a reckless offstage chase. After pushing to ledge, keep layering Holy Water, fair, bair, and Up B around Cross Chop’s rise and ledge return. Simon’s own recovery is too weak to turn every edgeguard into a scramble, so stage-side ledge pressure is the more repeatable way to close.

Full Move Frame Quick Reference

Opponent MoveStartupOn ShieldSimon OOS Candidate MovesBarely Missed Moves
Jab 15-14
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (+2)
  • Up Smash (+2)
  • OOS Bair (+3)
  • OOS Fair (+3)
  • OOS Uair (+3)
Jab 24-23
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Jab 34-28
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Forward Tilt12-12
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
Up Tilt6-19
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Down Tilt9-11
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
Dash Attack8-21
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Forward Smash16-22/-24
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Up Smash13-23
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Down Smash18-28
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Neutral Air5-6/-8
  • Up B (6f)
Forward Air8-9/-9
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (+1)
  • OOS Nair (+2)
Back Air7-7/-6
  • Up B (6f)
Up Air7-4
  • None
  • Up B (+2)
Down Air16-11/-11/-12
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
Neutral B5/15/23/37/50/56-65
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Side B16
Up B11/38-51
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Down B3 (Start of Counter)
Grab7
Dash Grab11
Pivot Grab12

Win Condition Checklist

  • Rotate Cross, Holy Water, and axe timing and height so Incineroar never gets an easy Revenge rhythm on one repeated lane.
  • After shielding Jab 1-3, forward tilt, up tilt, down tilt, dash attack, any smash, neutral air, forward air, back air, down air, Neutral B, or Up B, punish with Up B (6f) or Grab (10f) and cut the close-range turn short.
  • Do not answer Side B by freezing in shield. Walk back and keep the grab lane itself outside of range.
  • Once Incineroar is cornered, stay stage-side and cover Cross Chop’s ledge grab and higher return with Holy Water, fair, bair, and Up B.
  • Even at kill percent, do not force only forward smash reads. Close through repeated ledge pressure into tipper fair, bair, or Up B.

Actions to Avoid

  • Repeating the same-height Cross or Holy Water pattern until Revenge turns the next Incineroar hit into a disaster.
  • Camping in shield to stop Side B and letting the command-grab layer dictate the whole close-range exchange.
  • Leaving punishable Jab strings, dash attack, neutral air, Neutral B, or Up B unanswered and making Incineroar’s heavy approach happen over and over.
  • Chasing too far offstage and running Simon’s short recovery into Cross Chop’s hitboxes.

Reference Links

Related Pages