Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)
This matchup is about Joker using mobility, Gun, and Eiha to separate Rosalina from Luma and then overwhelming the exposed body with close-range pressure. Rosalina and Luma can still wall out Joker very effectively while Luma is active, but once Luma is gone the matchup gets much more volatile because Rosalina’s weight and landing weakness are suddenly much easier to exploit.
Rosalina should keep Luma slightly ahead of her and make Joker run into the first layer before the body commits. When the spacing stays intact, Joker’s dash, Fair, Uair, and grab routes are much easier to intercept with Rosalina’s own Fair, Uair, and Up Smash. Joker’s normal form does not finish stocks as brutally as Arsene form does, so the matchup gets much better if Rosalina uses that time to build the lead and force repeated ledge situations before Arsene arrives.
The frame table shows Jab 1-3, Forward Tilt, Up Tilt, Down Tilt, Dash Attack, every smash attack, Fair, Uair, and Side B (1) are all punishable with Up Smash (8f), OOS Uair (9f), Grab (10f), or OOS Nair (10f). Jab strings, Up Tilt, Down Tilt, Dash Attack, the smash attacks, and Side B (1) even reach OOS Bair and Fair, which means active Luma pressure can convert a blocked button into immediate stage control. In contrast, Nair, Bair, Dair, Gun, and counter states are hard to punish directly, and trying to force those shield punishes during Arsene is exactly how the stock gets reversed.
The win condition is to use normal Joker’s weaker finishing power against him: keep him airborne, force him to the ledge, and finish with Fair, Bair, and Up Smash before Arsene can equalize the damage race. Once Arsene is out, it is usually better to preserve formation, keep center, and burn the timer than to insist on winning every scramble.
Full Move Frame Quick Reference
| Opponent Move | Startup | On Shield | Rosalina and Luma OOS Candidate Moves | Barely Missed Moves |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jab 1 | 4 | -16 |
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| Jab 2 | 3 | -17 |
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| Jab 3 | 3 | -26 |
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| Forward Tilt | 8/13 | /-15(/-11) |
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| Up Tilt | 8/11/14/17/20 | -27 |
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| Down Tilt | 8 | -22(-19) |
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| Dash Attack | 6/15 | **/-23 |
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| Forward Smash | 16 | -21 |
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| Up Smash | 10 | -32(-30) |
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| Down Smash | 12/16 | -24/-20(—/-18) |
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| Neutral Air | 12 | -5 |
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| Forward Air | 7/12 | -10/-9 |
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| Back Air | 7 | -5 |
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| Up Air | 5… | -12 |
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| Down Air | 13 | -7 |
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| Neutral B (1) | 12/37/65 | ** | ||
| Neutral B (2) | 12/18/24 | ** | ||
| Side B (1) | 16 | -27 |
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| Side B (2) | 16 (1/6/11/16) | ** | ||
| Up B (1) | 20 | ** | ||
| Up B (2) | ** | — | ||
| Down B (1) | 3 (Start of Block) | — | ||
| Down B (2) | 4 (Start of Counter) | — | ||
| Grab | 6 | — | ||
| Dash Grab | 8 | — | ||
| Pivot Grab | 9 | — |
Win Condition Checklist
- Keep Luma slightly ahead of Rosalina so Joker has to go through the first layer before dash, Fair, Uair, or grab can reach the body.
- After blocking Jab 1-3, Forward Tilt, Up Tilt, Down Tilt, Dash Attack, any smash attack, Fair, Uair, or Side B (1), punish immediately with Up Smash (8f), OOS Uair (9f), Grab (10f), or OOS Nair (10f).
- Convert to OOS Bair or Fair on Up Tilt, Down Tilt, Dash Attack, the smash attacks, and Side B (1) when you can push Joker straight to the ledge.
- Build the lead during normal Joker by extending juggle and ledge sequences, then play more conservatively during Arsene while preserving Luma and center stage.
- At the ledge, rotate Fair, Bair, and Up Smash over jump, neutral getup, and evasive options so Joker cannot reset with Gun drift.
Actions to Avoid
- Chasing Joker while Luma is out of position and handing him a clean opening on Rosalina alone.
- Swinging after shielding Nair, Bair, Dair, Gun routes, or counter states when the punish does not really exist.
- Treating Arsene scrambles like normal Joker scrambles and taking even trades when the kill power has already shifted.
- Fishing for early kills in normal form so hard that Luma gets deleted and the matchup turns into Rosalina alone before you have the lead.
- Overcommitting offstage after winning the ledge and letting Joker slip back to center with Up B or Gun movement.